News.am is continuing its series of interviews with international legal specialists, human rights defenders, and human rights protection experts to understand what needs to be done and what mechanisms are in place for the 23 Armenian prisoners illegally held in Baku in order to protect the rights of the military-political leadership of Artsakh, prevent their torture, and ensure their return.

This time, we spoke with human rights defender Zhanna Aleksanyan. 

Mrs. Aleksanyan, we would like to discuss with you the topic of the 23 Armenian prisoners illegally held in Baku. You are probably aware that on June 13, the legal team of Ruben Vardanyan, who is illegally detained in Baku prison, submitted an extensive application to the United Nations (UN) Special Rapporteur on Torture, presenting terrible facts of torture. There is no doubt that torture is also applied to other Armenian prisoners. In your opinion, what should Armenia do, firstly, as a state? And secondly, what should Armenian human rights defenders and NGOs in different sectors do when their citizens are tortured in the prisons of another country? 

I think that local non-governmental organizations did make a statement for Ruben Vardanyan, but the primary work should be done by the state. Throughout the entire process of detaining individuals, we have not seen the Prime Minister of our country publicly condemn Baku's behavior after it imprisoned those people. We did not see him make a statement of condemnation following the announcements about torture. He did not make a public condemnation in any way, which is actually very important. This is also an example for other countries or for international structures that are interested and make efforts to support the captives and ultimately achieve their release. The state should closely cooperate with international structures, regularly appeal and continuously address these issues. This should be the priority task of the Armenian authorities.

We know that these issues are mainly dealt with by the human rights organizations concerned with international law. When it became known that Ruben Vardanyan was being tortured, in my opinion, the press should have been flooded with news amplifying the issue of these people.

However, we saw that the Armenian authorities did not express any position. This has a very negative impact on the process of releasing those people from prison. 

Should not humanitarian issues — in this case, the issue of Armenian prisoners held in Baku — become a separate subject of discussion without waiting for a possible "peace treaty" to be signed? Armen Grigoryan, Secretary of the Security Council of the Republic of Armenia, also mentioned this, although no effective steps are visible in that direction. 

We see Armenia's concessionary policy to ensure the "peace treaty" is signed, while Azerbaijan, taking advantage of all this, escalates its demands. The issue of our citizens kept in Azerbaijan should have been one of the conditions for signing the "peace treaty." It was supposed to be a condition, and they dictated that condition, but we don't know if the "peace treaty" will be signed or not. We see how Azerbaijan directs the treaty to its advantage, without the conditions set by Armenia.

We see, for example, that Azerbaijan demands the abandonment of our claims in international courts, to which non-governmental organizations expressed their opposition. It will be a shame if Armenia takes such steps. Our compatriots who are incarcerated in Baku prisons are especially affected by this compromising policy. That complicates the issue.

We see that there is international noise, especially about Ruben Vardanyan, but there is no change in his case. We have no information about those who are raising awareness, either. A great commotion should be made, a demand should be made, neither of which, unfortunately, are being done. I think that this issue is not even an essential one for the government of the Republic of Armenia. 

Is it theoretically possible to sign any "peace treaty" without the return of prisoners and other illegally held prisoners? The Azerbaijani side is trying, in every possible way, to "justify" that, for example, the figures from Artsakh are "criminals" and not political prisoners.

 Armenia is ready to sign the "peace treaty,” while Azerbaijan is constantly setting new conditions. Armenia does not even set a condition; it just wants to sign the treaty, and that's it. 

If we have lawsuits in international courts, it seems to me that the international courts will resolve this issue. Of course, it is a very long process.

How do you evaluate this situation, in general, from the point of view of citizen-state relations, when, on the one hand, our captives and other prisoners are kept in Baku prisons for years, and on the other hand, Azerbaijan returns its citizens arrested abroad through every possible means? A vivid example of this was the case of an Azerbaijani "fitness blogger" who was accused of brutally killing elderly Armenians.

Azerbaijan takes care of its citizens; Armenia does not. Now, the leadership of Artsakh, who are in prison — they are citizens of the Republic of Armenia. A citizen has absolutely no value.

When it is necessary to make every effort to release our illegally detained compatriots, nothing is done. I evaluate this process of doing nothing negatively.